I’ve recently become involved for the first time in decades with a spiritual organization, and this led me to write to one of the members that such organizations often come under the control of people who are given over almost entirely to their egos.
Then I remembered a counter-example and wrote the following postscript:
Dear ──────,
Emailing with you is making me remember all sorts of things I haven’t thought of in a long time.
I just remembered meeting Sundaram Ramanan, the former president of Sri Ramanasramam, about 25 years ago at a Navratri party at his daughter’s house in the US. While everyone else was making food in the kitchen or playing with the children or chatting loudly, he was by himself, pacing slowly back and forth in front of a large window with sunlight pouring through it. He was wearing a white kurta and his hands were clasped behind his back. Dust motes sparkled around him in the sunlight, and he was smiling.
I felt awkward at this party because except for Sundaram and I, everyone was in groups speaking Tamil and if I drew near, they would feel obligated to switch to English.
I went over to Sundaram and said hello. I didn’t know he was the ashram president. I did know he was a relative of Bhagavan. He looked at me and I could see in his eyes that he wasn’t lost in thought, that he was really there, the consciousness apparent the way it is when people aren’t lost in thought.
I asked him what Bhagavan was like in person. He had known Bhagavan when he was a kid. Without a moment’s hesitation he said very emphatically, making a slicing gesture with his open hand to show how absolute his statement was, “Natural. Completely natural. He spoke to everyone the same way without any formality. Completely spontaneous.”
Then for some reason, I don’t remember why, he began to recite the mahavakyas. He did this in a very beautiful, rolling timbre. I can still hear the way he said aham brahmasmi, drawing out the words and pronouncing them in a dramatic but unpretentious way. We were looking into each other eyes as he did this and we could both see that we were both enjoying this.
He was quite a bit older than me and usually I felt shy in such situations but I didn’t feel that way with him.
It was a short conversation and I’m probably describing it badly but he made an enormous impression on me, a wonderful impression, and it wasn’t because he was the ashram president. I didn’t know he was the ashram president.
Link
Video interview of Sundaram by Henri Jolicoeur, suggested by Rico Rico in comments. At 13:10 Sundaram describes Ramana the same way (“absolutely natural”) as he does in the recollection I recalled above.
Such a nice anecdote!
Interestingly, I recently have noticed again, and thought briefly about how I became much more spontaneous, even in my interactions with people I barely know and in formal settings. It can even be a bit unsettling, because apparently, I have no control over how I behave and present myself to other people. But as I always do, I chose not to mind and go with the flow 🙂
Are you planning to write about your experiences with the spiritual organisation?
Yeah that spontaneous, uncontrolled talking is scary sometimes. Have you ever said anything you regretted as a result? I’m sure I have but I can’t remember an example. I almost had an example yesterday but afterward somebody told me I said the right thing. I do it more when I’m with sattvic, conscious people. I guess it increases as part of satsang transmission.
I haven’t thought about writing about the organization. I don’t know. I rarely think of anything to write lately. I only wrote this page because talking with somebody by email evoked it unexpectedly.
I don’t remember anything I regretted. I guess I haven’t gone to extremes yet! They say that being authentic is highly appreciated by others. I think it reflects my experience so far. But you never know what will come out of your mouth the next moment! 😀
Now I am curious about which organization you are involved with!
“Involved” probably gives a false impression. I’m collaborating with a friend on a project that his organization wants to control, so I’ve been interacting with his organization.
Beautiful story! There’s a talk David Godman gage to the Ramana Maharshi Foundation UK about a year ago in which he mentions that someone once asked Kitty Osborne to describe what Sri Ramana’s speaking voice sounded like, and she responded by saying that if you listened to Sundaram Ramanan talking you could get an idea, as she apparently thought his voice had a similar timbre to Bhagavan’s.
Also there is an interview with him on Henri Jolicoeur’s YouTube channel and Sundaram Ramanan responds to one of Henri’s questions in a very similar manner to what he said to you — emphasizing Sri Ramana’s naturalness in his interactions with all.
Anyway, thank you for sharing the story, very cool!
Hi Rico,
Thanks so much for telling me about Kitty’s remark and Henri’s video. While I was writing my memories above, I wondered if they were accurate. But now, thanks to Henri’s video, I see that I remembered what Sundaram told me about Ramana correctly. At 13:20 in the video he says the same thing. It’s funny, though, I met him only about 15 years before the video was made, but I remember him being much younger-looking and still having a youthful vigor. I recall him with long black hair. His voice was stronger and more emphatic. He seemed to be characteristically joyfully amused but unlike in the video, where he expresses this by laughing frequently, he showed it with his expression and a glitter in his eye.
Here’s a link to the place in Henri’s video (13:10) where Sundaram starts to describe Bhagavan as “natural.”
https://youtu.be/ynYzrlHQbt0?si=91LlFEExYhB7xnB7&t=790
Beautiful!
I will dig up video/timestamp of the David Godman talk where he discusses Kitty Osborne’s recollection of Sri Ramana’s voice, if only for my own desire to hear it again!
And thanks again, I really love hearing personal stories like these that are connected to Sri Ramana.
You’ve probably read Ramana Periya Puranam and the follow-on volume by Sundaram’s brother Ganesan. David’s Power of the Presence series is probably also full of stories but I haven’t been able to read it in years due to poor eyesight and lack of digital editions.
Yes, I love the stories in all of those books. They are treasures. I think there might be copies of all of those books on archive.org these days, and they do have a function on there where you can press the little headphones icon and choose a digital voice to read the text. Plus David Godman’s own videos on YouTube retell many of those stories. You probably know all of the above, but…
Speaking of, I located the video where David talks about Sri Ramana’s voice resembling Sundaram. I’m not sure where I got the idea that it was Kitty Osborne who said it, as David here attributes the comparison to a “he”, although maybe I read or heard somewhere else that she said the same? At any rate, the video is here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4s9p-JmVJEo&ra=m
and he launches into the story at around 1:15:35 or thereabouts…
I didn’t know archive.org has a voice feature. Thanks for telling me! I’ll try it.
And thanks also for the link to David’s video.