{"id":4793,"date":"2022-08-04T05:30:49","date_gmt":"2022-08-04T11:30:49","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/?p=4793"},"modified":"2023-06-22T06:43:13","modified_gmt":"2023-06-22T12:43:13","slug":"ramana-and-muzika-compared","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/ramana-and-muzika-compared\/","title":{"rendered":"Muzika on watching the waking state come to us"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Reminder:  When I write about spiritual teachers I&#8217;m not necessarily recommending them or endorsing claims about their states.<\/p>\n<p>A couple of weeks ago I happened to listen to one of Ed Muzika&#8217;s satsang talks in which he gives a first-hand description of something that Ramana often recommended: noticing the process of waking from deep sleep.<\/p>\n<p>I think Muzika&#8217;s description is independent of anything that Ramana said.  Their vocabularies are different, and Ramana describes the I-thought rising from the Heart while Muzika says a light rises from his gut. I think these sorts of &#8220;alternative descriptions&#8221; are valuable and I recommend this one to you.  It begins at 21:53 in the following video.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ll point out particularly that Muzika says at 25:12:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Once it got into my head the totality of the world appeared.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Compare to Ramana in <i>Who Am I?<\/i>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Just as a spider spins out thread from within itself and again draws it back into itself, so the mind makes the world appear [or projects the world] from within itself and again dissolves it back into itself. When the mind comes out from \u0101tma-svar\u016bpa, the world appears. Therefore when the world appears, svar\u016bpa [one\u2019s own form or real nature] does not appear; when svar\u016bpa appears (shines), the world does not appear.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>If you&#8217;re accustomed to Ramana&#8217;s vocabulary, or more exactly the one used by Ramana&#8217;s English translators, Muzika&#8217;s vocabulary may be confusing.  Muzika&#8217;s terminology is like the one used by Nisargadatta&#8217;s translators.   <\/p>\n<p>When Muzika says &#8220;consciousness&#8221; he means what Ramana (really, his translators) calls &#8220;I-thought&#8221; or &#8220;mind&#8221; or &#8220;ego&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>When Ramana (really, his translators) says &#8220;consciousness&#8221; he means what Muzika calls &#8220;awareness&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>Also of interest:  <a href=\"https:\/\/tomdas.com\/2021\/07\/10\/deep-sleep-and-self-realisation-falling-asleep-during-self-enquiry\/\">Deep Sleep and Self-Realisation | Falling asleep during Self-Enquiry<\/a> by Tom Das.<\/p>\n<p>The general idea of the waking state coming to that-which-is-really-aware goes back at least as far as Mandukya Upanishad and the notion of turiya.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"648\" height=\"365\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/hH3eeDzx_bs?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;start=1311&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Reminder: When I write about spiritual teachers I&#8217;m not necessarily recommending them or endorsing claims about their states. A couple of weeks ago I happened to listen to one of Ed Muzika&#8217;s satsang talks in which he gives a first-hand description of something that Ramana often recommended: noticing the process of waking from deep sleep. [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":4992,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4793","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/06\/photo-not-found.jpg?fit=1344%2C896&ssl=1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p6YVpx-1fj","jetpack-related-posts":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4793","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4793"}],"version-history":[{"count":14,"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4793\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4814,"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4793\/revisions\/4814"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4992"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4793"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4793"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/freddieyam.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4793"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}