Ilie Cioara and Dada Gavand

Two peas in a pod.

When I watch interviews on Conscious.tv and BatGap, I sometimes think there must be a thousand kinds of enlightenment.

But these two men, Ilie Cioara and Dada Gavand, are spiritual twins. Their teachings, their sadhanas, their writing styles, and their states are uncannily alike. When I read one, I am always reminded of the other.

I think both were in the same state as Ramana Maharshi: manonasa, the permanent loss of the ego, genuine Self-realization as that term was defined by Ramana.

I highly recommend the books that these two men wrote.

The sadhana that they followed and recommend is a certain kind of attention. Cioara writes:

Lucid and all-encompassing Attention is the only instrument needed…

Gavand writes:

Only complete perception, a polyangular intense watchfulness, can bring this about.

They mean the same thing. They mean that we should be conscious of all actions of the mind: thoughts, desires, fears, and so forth. Normally these actions are mostly unconscious; they are telling us to become conscious of them. When we fail to do this, they agree, our energy gets dissipated. Cioara writes:

For the restless thought, traveling towards the past or future,
Dissipates our energy — permanently and damaging.

Gavand writes:

This was an important experience: indulgence in thought dissipates the energy, whereas dissolving thought through watchfulness liberates the energy, augmenting its flow.

Here’s a longer quote from Cioara that describes the idea in more detail:

We encounter the movement of the mind with the flame of total Attention — requested by the aliveness of life in its continuous flow. Without the light and serenity provided by Attention, nothing can be understood in a real way.

In the light of Attention, any reaction of the mind (thought, image, fear, desire) — which functions chaotically, obsessively and dominates us — is instantly dissolved. In the psychological void that follows, a new mind appears, expanding into Infinity, as a state of Pure Consciousness, pure understanding as well as transformative action.

They agree that each person must discover this practice on his or her own. No books or teacher or theory can lead the way. Cioara writes:

No one will be able to give this to you. You can go to the four corners of the earth in search of holy lands; you can visit mountains and rivers, temples and churches, but nowhere will you find that spirit. It is not outside anywhere. This is not a gift or donation from anyone. You alone have to discover this into yourself. This is the only way…

The author cannot give you any help at all.

Gavand writes:

You will have to discover that by yourself. There is no theory. You have to make a beginning somewhere…

And just for fun, here’s a similar quote from Ramana:

As for reading books on Vedanta, you may go on reading any number of them. They can only tell you, ‘Realise the Self within you’. The Self cannot be found in books. You have to find it out for yourself, in yourself. (From Day by Day with Bhagavan, p. 1)

Nevertheless, I think their books are very helpful for understanding how to do the practice that they recommend.

They say that the rewards of this practice are immense. Cioara writes:

When it [the ego] is exposed, watched totally, as it really is,
Does it last? Does it keep moving? Attention dissolves it.

The permanent dissolution of the ego is manonasa, the defining characteristic of Self-realization of the kind that we associate with Ramana Maharshi. Here’s a longer quote from Gavand about this process:

When energy becomes sensitive, highly volatile and effervescent, it transcends the idea/emotion level of the mind. Mind becomes the mindless. This mindless energy is dynamic, virtuous and holy. It is pure and transparent to reflect the will and glory of the divine. With humility the energy becomes capable of meeting every moment and event of relationship intuitively, without the thought process of mind.

This sensitive and humble energy becomes free from all ideas, desires and rigid mechanical drives born out of the past. The cumulative effect of the whole past is the image of “I,” the mind which seeks the spirit. Elimination of this past is the freedom from the mind, who is the seeker. Thereafter all seeking comes to an end, as the seeker himself is dissolved.

The last part of the last sentence, “the seeker himself is dissolved,” is manonasa. Manonasa is Self-realization, the genuine Self-realization, the kind we associate with Ramana Maharshi.

The quotations in this post were taken from the following books:

Dada Gavand, Beyond the Mind

Dada Gavand, Intelligence Beyond Thought

Ilie Cioara, The Silence of the Mind

More about Dada Gavand

More about Ilie Cioara

Quotes from Dada Gavand

Quotes from Ilie Cioara

9 thoughts to “Ilie Cioara and Dada Gavand”

  1. Excellent!
    Total attention-
    “If the eye never sleeps all dreams will naturally cease.” Hsin-Hsin Ming by Seng Ts’an.

  2. Freddie, I’ve read Gavand’s book “Intelligence Beyond Thought” and the clarity with which he presents his awakening is truly amazing. Great master!

    What I’ve come to discover is that this instruction to watch the mind can be very misleading. I remember doing for many hours a day watching for the next thought to appear and it was so uncomfortable and choking. What I then realized was that I wasn’t enjoying the silence that’s already (which is where we want to put our attention on) but was putting my attention on keeping a watch for thoughts to arise that weren’t here at all yet! Which was really stupid!
    Then it occured to me that I can watch the thought WHEN IT ACTUALLY APPEARS and immediately question the motivation behind it, which is usually a story/justification of a past event. That caused the thought to dissolve without me indulging in it. In my earlier practices, in the name of watching the thoughts, I was actually getting sucked into them and the practice ended in exhaustion and tiredness by living in the past one more time!
    Now my practice is to simply dwell in silence and BE at peace. If thoughts intrude, I watch how it wants to hijack my attention and come back to dwell in silence (space) again. This has given me better results. Of course there are days when the past is way too strong for me to resist and I just surrender to it by complaining and whining about it. Once this energy from the past calms down, I once again return to my pratice to focus on Silence again.

    1. Hi Rama, that sounds really good. I’m happy for you. There’s a lot of wisdom and good advice in what you wrote, in more ways than one.

      I reacted exactly the same way to Gavand’s description of awakening in that book and years ago, I typed that whole part of the book by hand (as you know it’s quite long) and published the whole thing on realization.org. When I started restoring that website a few months ago, it was one of the first things I put back online. It’s so long, probably very few people will ever read it, but I think it’s quite extraordinary.

      1. Freddie, your writings are brilliant and inspiring. It has benefitted me immensely. In fact, just reading through your blog posts is also what I consider a part of my sadhana. Because, it helps me to calm down and I get that motivation to sit down and focus my attention on Silence.
        As you explained in one of your responses to me in the other blog post, the key is to turn my attention away from everything else and put it on the silent space. Many years were wasted in the name of watching thoughts!
        A thought as I see it now, is like a package. If I’m smart, I just politely refuse to accept it. If I get into the content of it, then, I’ve no idea how much time might elapse before it lets me focus on silence again.
        So to me, watching a thought now means, intuitively understanding what the thought is about (which is in my case almost always about a past traumatic event) and NOT getting into the content of it, and send it on its way. Ignoring it, not reacting to it and keeping a distance from it.

        1. After I posted the above comment, I realized that in fact, I DO indulge in the past although I make a sincere effort to bring my attention to silence.
          It seems to me that there is value in indulging IF it can bring the mind to Acceptance by using logic, an analysis of the circumstances etc (like you did and discovered that you were a coward and luckily your mind accepted and stopped).
          In my case, I’ve done this in many different ways and my mind doesn’t want to accept it. It goes on and on. So, having indulged many many times in the past, I can now see that wasting more time on it is probably isn’t going to be useful. It seems like my ego mind doesn’t want any resolution because it fears it may result in its death and hence avoids acceptance.
          I then enquired what it is that I really want. I really want peace! I ask myself “If my mind isn’t going to stop with the past, what’s the next best thing I can do for myself?”.
          Answer- Focusing on silence and be at peace. That’s what I’m trying to do now.

        2. Rama, I’m very glad that I’ve been able to write things you found so helpful.

          Over the years I’ve written mainly about subjects that I think are of secondary importance, because those are the only things I know for sure, from my own experience. My posts about vasanas are in that category.

          The thing I regard as most important — Ramana’s method — I’ve written very little about, because I haven’t followed it to the end and therefore I don’t know it for sure.

          But I want to say something about it now because it sounds like you are attracted to it like I am. It is possible — I know this from experience — to look away from the mind and thoughts completely. To look instead at that-which-is-not-thoughts, at that which is not a mental state, not a mental phenomenon. It’s alive, alert — it knows. It has no characteristics. It’s not an object.

          I just wrote “look away” but when the attention shifts from the mind to this vivid object-less knowing, there isn’t any looking. There is just knowing. I also just wrote the “attention shifts” but this use of the word attention is so different from the ordinary use of the word, the phrase may be misleading.

          I think that when you write “silence” you probably mean someething like I mean when I say knowing. I wouldn’t choose the word “silence” for what I’m describing because it is intensely vivid. To me silence implies an absence but the knowing is more real and more vivid than any mental state. From the point of view of the mind, the knowing might seem like an absence, because thoughts aren’t present, but the mind’s point of view is unimportant from the point of view of the knowing.

          Thoughts are such a powerful magnet for the attention, I suppose it might come as a big surprise when a person realizes that it’s possible to look away from the mind in this way.

          I don’t know how Ramana’s method is related to what Dada Gavand did. In a way the two methods are opposites. I was never attracted to Gavand’s method and I never practiced it. I published the excerpt from his book and wrote about it here because I think he reached a very deep state and he wrote brilliantly about what he did. Also, his intensity of effort and single-minded pursuit of truth are relevant for all seekers. But his method is not for me.

          1. Yes Freddie. Silence is probably not a good word to describe it. Knowingness and simply existing in the I AM feeling is probably a better description (Maharaj comes to mind). What I call Silence = the I AM feeling without thought = Knowingness without thought.
            So far in my sadhana, what I’m able to observe is thinking trying to hijack attention to itself and as Gavand puts it, use the energy of attention to propel me into some action (against my wish and will).
            My take on Gavand’s sadhana is he was able to watch these thoughts in an aloof manner (which I find very hard because I immediately get stuck) and as he gradually obtained his release from its stranglehold, was able to come and reside in the I AM feeling whereas Ramana seems to advocate coming directly to that state – maybe because his thoughts weren’t so strong as to hijack his attention away from his Self (once again the I AM feeling or Knowingness).
            For mere mortals like me, a combination of both Ramana’s and Gavand’s method seems to be way….

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